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[Adam]

dayum

[Stalker]

Really, I would have never thought it out this well, this is good.

[Mike]

Dayum nothing.

Hitler,while interesting, doesn't really do anything to shut me up. The Holocaust is an extreme, extreme example. Hitler's Final Solution never got published, and many of the jews that were victims didn't know about it, but the allied nations did know about anti-Jew plans which were reported before the start of the war, and they learned about the camps early on in their counterattack on the Nazis. Hell almost all of Eastern Europe but Bulgaria supported Hitler's extermination of the Jews and helped him find them. It wasn't until at the end of the war in 1944 that the Allies even started the War Refugee Board. Even after at they did nothing to stop camps like Auschwitz. There was definitely shock and disgust by many, primarily in more advanced countries like America and Britain, and it helped lead to finally stopping Hitler.

Which leads me into the point that many Americans seem to have, which is to think that terrorism has a face and name. The main point I was getting at with terrorism is that there isn't a face. Hitler's genocide was stopped. Did the Jews finally get peace? No, the rest of Eastern Europe terrorized them. I remember reading somewhere that near 5000 Jews were killed in Poland alone in the years directly following the Holocaust. That's thousands of people dead, while ignoring what other countries like Russia, Hungary, etc. added to that total.

Let's go over to the Middle East and kill Bin Laden! If you look at recent terrorist attacks in America, like in OK City, prior to 9/11 and you'll see they are domestic attacks by domestic terrorists. I still stand by my idea that the last 7 years and sadly all the lives lost have been in vain. The truth of the matter is that at any point in time my, and anyone's, defense against a terrorist attack is to cross our fingers and hold onto our asses. You can put as many soldiers as you want overseas, you can place as much security at home, but none of that is going to stop the possibility of the next 9/11. You can only be thankful that radicals are called radicals for a reason. You act like I'm some brat that is taking advantage of the military with the idea that I know how the world works perfectly, and saying fuck a lot and writing with emphasis might convince some of the stupid people on here of that, but you couldn't be further from the truth. I'm saying I'd rather we hadn't and don't continue to send people over to die for a false sense of security. While things like the holocaust that would not have ended without intervention,do need to be dealt with on a global scale, but beheadings, and even 9/11 do not. Yes, it's terribly sad that lives are lost, but these don't require a full on "war" where more lives are going to be lost. I want to MINIMIZE the deaths. If you still think it's more selfish for me to complain about people dieing in a war for my "protection", than the argument ends here.

[Shadows]

the allied nations did know about anti-Jew plans which were reported before the start of the war, and they learned about the camps early on in their counterattack on the Nazis.

Wrong, there was no real counterattack against the Axis Powers until June of 1944.  Considering that the majority of extermination camps were deep in Germany, the first allied forces would not "liberate" any jews until early 1945.  Also, the stories from escaping jews were condemned by many as gross exaggerations and largely ignored as can be seen by the limits placed on jewish immigrants to the US during the time.  You state that the war multiple eastern countries knew about the jews but did nothing, which although true in some respects, by no means did they leave the jews to die, read Anne Franks Diary.  Even so, it can be argued that the people who did nothing to help the jews in eastern europe were "merely crossing their fingers and holding on to their asses" in the hopes that they weren't targeted next, its exactly why i believe we can't sit back and do nothing.

Let's go over to the Middle East and kill Bin Laden! If you look at recent terrorist attacks in America, like in OK City, prior to 9/11 and you'll see they are domestic attacks by domestic terrorists. I still stand by my idea that the last 7 years and sadly all the lives lost have been in vain. The truth of the matter is that at any point in time my, and anyone's, defense against a terrorist attack is to cross our fingers and hold onto our asses. You can put as many soldiers as you want overseas, you can place as much security at home, but none of that is going to stop the possibility of the next 9/11. You can only be thankful that radicals are called radicals for a reason.

Although your point about the Oklahoma City bombing is noted i still disagree with this.  Think of it like this, why is there always one kid who seems to get the shit kicked out of him at school? Usually hes the weakest looking, easiest to isolate, or least likely to fight back.  Now think about the older looking tough guy with the 5 O' clock shadow stereotype.  Chances are, you might catch him by surprise, might be able to fuck him up a little bit, but what happens when he stands back up? Chances are, he'll be pissed off and beat the shit out of you, your friends, and anybody who even talks to you from that point on.  This is exactly why I believe this war is necessary.  Think about it.  If the US has laid down, taken the 9/11 bombings and simply waited for the next attack what would've happened? More then likely we'd turn into the weak kid, the one who you can knock down and parade around like you're the shit.  Instead, we bombed the shit out of Afghanistan, killed or captured anything still above ground that supported the Taliban, and sent Bin Laden and his lieutenants underground.  Now weigh the odds if you're a terrorist leader.. you got two good punches in, two punches, and now you are effectively ineffective as a terrorist group.  Turn to Iraq, where despite what the liberal media will tell you, things have pretty much stabilized, even so much as to allow the Iraqi Parliament to vote into effect a measure that would see US forces withdrawn in the next few years.  Saddam is dead, Al-Zahrawi is dead, hundreds of thousands of terrorists are dead, and we haven't been attacked in seven years.  That sounds like a success to me.

While things like the holocaust that would not have ended without intervention,do need to be dealt with on a global scale, but beheadings, and even 9/11 do not. Yes, it's terribly sad that lives are lost, but these don't require a full on "war" where more lives are going to be lost. I want to MINIMIZE the deaths. If you still think it's more selfish for me to complain about people dieing in a war for my "protection", than the argument ends here.

As i stated earlier, your plan of duck and cover will do nothing to minimize the deaths.  Over 4,000 Americans have died over the past 6 years fighting the War on Terror. Lets put that in perspective, disregarding the obvious causalities from earlier wars, lets compare this to the number of Americans killed in a single day so many years ago. 2752.  Think about that.  A single day, a single attack, that has a death toll nearly half to that of the 6 year (and running) multiple country war.  You want to minimize American deaths? You tell which was the better course of action.

[Shadows]

No response?

[Dan]

than the argument ends here.

he is not posting here anymore.

[Shadows]

than the argument ends here.

he is not posting here anymore.

As in these forums or this topic?

[Dan]

forums.

[Shadows]

Can i ask why? Is he really that childish?

[Dan]

i don't know if i can tell you.

[Andrew]

And they took the video down.